Ep. 059 | Addiction & Music Therapy

Today, we chat with Tim Ringgold, a board-certified music therapist, about using music in addiction recovery.

TRANSCRIPT

Erica: Welcome, friends! You’re listening to The Feeling is Musical — as presented by the Snohomish County Music Project. My name is Erica Lee, and today, we chat with Tim Ringgold about music as a tool for people in recovery.

Tim is a board-certified music therapist, columnist, author, host of the Reduce Your Stress Podcast, and the Stress Elimination Summit. He has provided music therapy to thousands of teens and adults, to help them lower anxiety and reduce pain. Tim is also an award-winning international speaker, having shared the stage with some of the top minds on music, the brain, and personal development - including Tony Robbins. Tim was the first person to give a TEDx Talk on music therapy in 2012. Tim is also a former regional president of the American Music Therapy Association.

Please note that this episode includes content about addictions, including sex addiction, drug and alcohol use, and religious trauma.

Also, exciting news: we have our very first sponsorships. So, today’s episode is sponsored by the Seattle Storm and Angel Of The Winds Casino Resort.

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The Seattle Storm is a 4-time WNBA championship team. Through the Force4Change Initiative, the Storm actively expresses its embrace of diversity, equity, and inclusion, through its practice of fighting for social and racial justice across the country. In addition, the storm promotes local youth development, in the areas of leadership and sports, with a focus on girls and women. For more information, visit StormBasketball.com.

And, the very last thing before we get started. We want to say thanks for all of your support over the last year. We’re looking forward to continuing to explore music therapy, and chat with more amazing guests. However, we want to let you know that we are changing our production model to shift from weekly episodes to season-based content. This will be a more sustainable model for us at the Music Project and ensure we can continue to have meaningful conversations. So we’ll be taking a break for a few weeks at the end of March, and encourage you to follow us on social media @SCMusicProject so you don’t miss any new episodes.

[Podcast intro music plays]

Erica: Welcome to the podcast, Tim. Thank you so much for being here today.

Tim: Thank you so much for having me, Erica —

Erica: In our virtual space —

Tim: Yes.

Erica: Um - question I ask every new guest that comes on is: how did you originally become interested in music therapy? What is your specific story?

Tim: Wow… So, I’ll try to keep it short, but um… My dad passed away at home in hospice, and Enya was playing when he died.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: So, for those who don’t know that name off the top of your head, Enya is a female recording artist who would loop and layer voice, over and over and over - and she approached her voice like it was an entire orchestra of instruments. So her music is just very very other-worldly, and it was like having, you know, a choir of angels in the room with my dad when he died.

And, I was a young, crazy, rock and roll guitar player. I had twenty hole boots, no eyebrows, uh, all black wardrobe, big crosses around my neck, and I wore liquid latex on stage. In that moment, as a musician watching this, I saw Enya was the soundtrack of my dad’s transformation from life to afterlife. And I was so down with that It was just awesome!

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: And I had a thought. And my thought, Erica, was: what if I could be the soundtrack of someone’s transformation from life to afterlife? And the response that I got was that that would be the highest use of my God-given gifts as a musician —

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: But I didn’t know that there was a structure called music therapy.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: I just had this vision and then no structure to fulfill the vision. And, you fast-forward now probably six more years, and I was a recording artist who, for every dollar I made, I spent two - uh - uh they say sex, drugs, and rock and roll in that order for a reason. Um, incredibly unhealthy lifestyle. And uh, I was just really warn out. And I saw my future in the music industry, I was like [gusty sigh]. And we - at the time, we lived about ten minutes away from Arizona State University —

Erica: Mmhmm —

Tim: Lived in Phoenix, Arizona. So, I was like [sighs], I don’t know. Like… but I listened, you know, to my wife - or, my fiancé at the time - and that night, I went on Arizona State’s website. And I just started to scroll through the majors from A to Z, just to see what was out there. You know, what - what would [vocalizes a bell sound on the word “bing”] you know, light up for me. And I am one part artist, one part athlete; I originally moved to Phoenix to get a degree in exercise science. And I hit E, and I saw exercise science, and I was like, that’s no longer it.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: Hmm… Kept scrolling - I get to music. Music composition? No. Music education? No. Music performance? No. Music therapy. What? I had never seen those two words put together. And, Erica, I used to work in physical therapy as an athlete, but it was just tissue - it wasn’t the mind or the soul. It was just - it got boring.

And I saw music therapy. I click on it, it opens up a page that’s got a paragraph about the type of work music therapists do, and it’s got a paragraph about the type of person a music therapist is.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: And for the first time in my life, Erica, I thought I could get a degree in being myself. I filled out my application right then and there. And  I never looked back.

Erica: Hmm. Wow.

Tim: That day changed my life.

Erica: I really love the, um, you found something that fit you —

Tim: Yeah —

Erica: And not you fitting in to something else.

Tim: Yeah. All my questions are answered, and literally I will do whatever it takes. And, like, I didn’t get in - like I failed my audition the first time. I got a vocal coach for a year, and then promptly failed my audition a second time. And then drove to California - to a little liberal arts school in California that was ten times the tuition of Arizona State, and I got in. And then I was faced with what do I do?

We rented out our house in Phoenix, we moved to southern California, rented a house from the university, and lived off one income while I went back to school - in my 30s, full time, for five years. And it worked. It was just one of those things where it was so clear that this was meant to be for me. Like, this is me. So —

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: Everybody get out of my way.

Erica: [Laughs] I love that.

Tim: And I can’t finish this sentence without saying: without my wife, it wouldn’t have happened. She supported us financially, and she kept me focused on the goal, ‘cuz I’m ADD and she’s not. And there were many times along the way where I got burnt out, I got frustrated, and I was like, I promised - I’m gonna stick it out.

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: And without her, I’m clear, I - I would not be where I am today. So, hats off to Angelique.

Erica: That’s sweet, yeah. We’re gonna talk about addiction and recovery —

Tim: Yeah —

Erica: In music therapy today. Can you tell us a little about your background? Um, please tell us a little about the book, ‘cause a lot of the questions I’m gonna ask are based on —

Tim: Yeah —

Erica: Content in the book. And then, um, I have some things to talk about.

Tim: [Chuckles] Yeah, alright. So, I entered the world, and, at eight years old, found myself terrified for my soul - and was not a - I wouldn’t call myself a victim, but I was an unfortunate recipient of what I would call spiritual trauma.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: Because I was raised inside of an ideology, I guess, around eternal hell and damnation and torture for a soul that doesn’t follow the following [rapidly] tick tick tick tick things. And as an eight year old boy, who would forget to say his prayers at night, I would fall asleep crying —

Erica: [Sympathetically] Mmmmm

Tim: Because I’d realized I didn’t say my prayers the night before. And then I was  terrified that I was going to burn in hell for eternity - because I was told, [puts on a gruff voice] remember, the worst thing you can think of - it’s worse than that. Like, no joke. Like, as someone with authority - as an adult - you tell someone else that like your eternal salvation is on the line, you’re, you believe the adult, and you get scared. And so, I was terrified, uh, going to bed every night, uh, starting at eight years old.

Um, and as human beings, when we’re stressed and we - or we seek to self-soothe. That is what a human being does by design - that is what sucking your thumb is, or rocking. I found my body - I’ll just put it that way - and I found that my body brought me distraction, diversion, pleasure, safety, comfort, escape. Um, but it was all taboo according to, uh, the religion and the ideology that I grew up with, so it was more shame, more reasons I’m going to hell.

So I had this completely confusing relationship with sexuality growing up. And then I - you know, I explored the world recreationally as a college student/high school student - you know, drugs and alcohol. Try ‘em, put ‘em down, pick ‘em up, put ‘em down - no big deal. What I noticed was there was one particular thing that was like kryptonite for me —

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: And I think, as we - about to dive into talking about addiction, is: kryptonite is a great analogy. Because Superman can do all kinds of amazing things, except for this one thing. And when this one thing is around, he is literally powerless. So he’s powerless in the presence of kryptonite. For me, I was powerless in the presence of women - uh in the context of sex, flirting, pornography - I was powerless around women. And when I was engaged - or, shortly before we became engaged, is really where I really identified that I have a real problem. Like, I’m out of control in my life - it’s bringing me immense amounts of shame and disconnection, and uh whatever short term benefit it causes, it’s also causing long-term harm, and I’ve tried to stop, but I can’t. And that really is a really great criteria for addiction. So I like Gabor Mate and Tommy Rosen’s definitions: like, any behavior that, despite attempts to stop, you continue to use - and despite harmful consequences.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: It’s like driving down the road, but you’re suddenly kicked to shotgun. And now, you don’t have control of the wheel or the break, but someone’s got a brick on the gas pedal, and the car is drifting. You’re drifting towards a brick wall - and you’ve hit the brick wall before - you know what it’s gonna feel like. But you’re experience is that you can’t reach over and grab the wheel or hit the break. There’s some sort of forcefield between you - it’s right there! It’s right there, but you can’t grab it. And you hit the wall again. And you try to describe this to people who haven’t had that experience, and they have no idea. Like, why don’t you just grab the wheel?

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: And you’re like, wouldn’t it be nice.

Erica: Yeah, what’s the title of your book?

Tim: My book’s called Sonic Recovery: Harness the Power of Music to Stay Sober.

Erica: It’s a really good read.

Tim: Thank you.

Erica: We had talked about - we had a conversation before we started recording this podcast, and we talked about how the audience for the book isn’t necessarily music therapists. So, if you’re a music therapist listening, feel free to read it - it’s really good - but it’s not as, uh, clinical as you might need, or as much, um, meat for the music therapist. But, it is so accessible for the average person, and that’s what I love about it.

Tim: Thank you.

Erica: Um, the concepts you laid out were so accessible. It had a really nice progression through the book so everything kinda layered upon each other, and there was no point in the book that I was confused or lost over what you were talking about

Tim: Nice.

Erica: And it also had some really practical, helpful tools that people can use towards the end of the book.

Tim: Mmhmm —

Erica: Um, highly recommend.

Tim: Well, thank you for the kind words. The book’s written for the person who’s either struggling to recover, or is in recovery, and is looking for tools to keep them safe —

Erica: Mmhmm.

Tim: The secondary and tertiary audience is those who love and serve that person - so clinicians/family members. I do a lot of speaking on the road at medical conferences and at retreats, and I’m often speaking to clinicians, telling them why this tool works when talk therapy doesn’t —

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: And how you - as a clinician - you don’t have to be a music therapist to leverage music, just be clear about the lanes in the road. You know, a talk therapist doesn’t own talking - a music therapist doesn’t own music - all those kinda inventions are silly.

Erica: Yeah.

Tim: If you have somebody in your life who struggles with addiction, read the book. Because, one of the things I’ve been told is my ability to articulate the experience of what it’s like to be somebody suffering from addiction, and then in recovery from addiction, is that I’m able to paint the picture in ways that others haven’t for them before.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: And I’ve gotten some amazing letters over the couple of years the book’s been out from family members - spouses, particularly wives - because it’s sex addiction, so it’s - it’s more common in men - um, that they - they feel like they understand their husband better.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: And that really means a lot to me. Because men are - have a hard time, in our culture, being uh free to express their fear, uh their sadness, their grief - we are trained to be stoic and tough and strong. And where that plays out is on the playground - and so we learn really quickly that we don’t open up, we don’t show emotion, because we will lose our street cred, if you will —

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: And we’re continually bombarded with those messages. That you’re supposed to be the strong silent type, and that you don’t open up. And the problem with that is that emotion is just energy in motion - it’s energy in your body, and if it’s not expressed, which just means squeezed out, its gonna come out sideways, it’s gonna come out backwards —

Erica: It’s gonna come out anyways.

Tim: It’s gonna come out anyways. And if you repress it, it’s gonna turn into either some sort of maladaptive behavior or physical illness.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: And so, men suffer unnecessarily, because they don’t know how to express themselves in healthy, socially acceptable ways.

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: And if you think about it, like, why men get so angry when they watch sports, or when they drive a car, is because where else are they allowed socially to express anger - and not be told they need a meeting?

Erica: Yeah. One of the things that, uh, was a new thought to me when I was reading your book was you have a sentence that says: people with addictions don’t necessarily think that they are lacking coping skills —

Tim: They’re not —

Erica: That’s a whole new - whole new thought for me. I’m curious - because coping skills vary from person to  person and what their specific context is - how do you, as a therapist, support a client-centered exploration of coping skill development?

Tim: So, the thing that really bakes people’s noodles is that addiction is not a problem —

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: It is a solution to a problem. Most adults alter their consciousness with substances and behaviors, uh, throughout human history, across the planet, on a daily basis, uh without any negative side effects. It’s not the substances. Because, if it was, everybody who drank would become an alcoholic - it’s just not the case, of course. Um, so then the question becomes, so what’s going on behind the scenes - and then the next set is that something’s going on that’s driving this use past the fun bus.

So, addiction - the substance or the behavioral use that we deem addiction - is a coping skill. The problem with that coping skill is that it’s causing too much collateral damage. But it’s a coping skill to manage pain - particularly trauma. And pain comes in four flavors: physical pain, emotional pain, social pain, and spiritual pain.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: And what the person who’s struggling is doing is they are simply self-medicating - they are self-regulating. So they’re finding ways to either up-regulate their focus, or down-regulate their emotions - one or the other. But they are coping with their inner experience. And some things they reach for are, you know, legal, and they don’t cause any problems. Some things they reach for are legal and they cause problems. Some things are socially acceptable, and they reach for it, and it doesn’t cause any problems. Some things are socially acceptable, and they reach for it, and it causes them problems.

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: And the classic example of that is alcohol. Alcohol is legal and socially acceptable. As someone who does not drink alcohol any more, I repeatedly have to defend my decision to not drink.

Erica: Yeah.

Tim: And I’m like, well, it’s funny - like, why is it that I have to justify why I don’t drink, and you don’t have to justify why you do?

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: ‘Cause you drink for a reason, and it’s not for the hangover.

Erica: Yeah.

Tim: So like, what are you coping with? Drinking alcohol is a coping skill. And so, what I - what I notice in life is that each human being develops like a toolkit of coping skills - but they don’t use that phrase. No - no - nobody uses coping skills who’s not a clinician. It’s a phrase that gets taught to us in an academic context - the average person is like, well how do I survive. And what we do in treatment is we upgrade the toolkit. That’s the phrase I use to describe, like look, there’s nothing you’re doing is wrong - there’s nothing wrong with you.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: You’re just using tools that are causing you more problems than they’re solving. Let’s upgrade your tools.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: And then they’re like, thank you. Because, typically, what happens is as clinicians, we judge people, when either when they - either we perceive they don’t have coping skills. Which, again, poor coping skills is a phrase that exists nowhere outside of a clinical like context —

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: Clinicians talking to clinicians about clients. So it’s important for us to remember like, we’re also human beings, and you gotta think as a human, and you gotta talk as a human. Even though you’ve been given this vocabulary as a clinician, it’s really important to step outside of the vocabulary, because you can get kind of disassociated from the real - the real.

Erica: Mmhmm.

Tim: Which is: you are just trying to survive in a universe that is trying to kill you.

Erica: Yeah. Um, you also, in the book, mentioned several times using um drumming - particular buffalo drums - and Indigenous flutes —

Tim: Mmhmm.

Erica: How do you practice cultural reflexivity and humility within your work, especially given the disproportionate impact of substance use on BIPOC communities?

Tim: Yeah, that’s a - there’s a lot in that question. So there’s like two layers —

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: The first layer is: when I was a new professional, I was at a Remo Health Rhythms training, and Christine Stevens, who’s one of my mentors - um, a music therapist - is one of the facilitators. She introduced a gentleman at the training who she said is her mentor from the Chumash Tribe, which is a southern California tribe.

Erica: Mmm

Tim: Essentially, this is a spiritual elder from a native community, and he’s here with us to learn and to share. Cool! I’m a white kid from Connecticut - I don’t know - I’m so disconnected from the earth, are you kidding me. Like, teach me! So, at one point during the um training - you we’re - you know, we’re using Remo instruments - so, great thing about Remo is just about everything they do, they do with recycled materials. So, their buffalo drums are made with recycled, synthetic materials —

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: There’s no animal skin, there’s no wood, nothin’. At one point, I’m having lunch with this gentleman, and I said to him, I feel like I’m - I’m in a uncomfortable position when it comes to playing a buffalo drum that’s made in a factory out of synthetic material. I just felt the need to check in with him - like, how do you feel about like the fact that we’re mass producing sacred instruments. Like —

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: Is this cool with you? And he was just like, it’s okay. And it kinda, just kinda gave me this - the only way I know how to say it is I felt like it gave me this blessing in that moment: that like, what you’re doing with this instrument is really good work. Do the good work with this instrument the way it was innovated, and then give credit to where it comes from.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: So like, when I introduce the instruments - ‘cause I introduce the instruments I use every single time I use them. ‘Cause there’s always a newcomer, and I want them to feel totally empowered. So, with my instruments, I tell them what the name of the instrument is, and where it’s from, and, you know, what it might have been used for originally.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: Often times they don’t remember any of that, but I’m just giving them a quick little, you know, cultural and music appreciation moment, if you will.

Erica: Yeah.

Tim: Like —

Erica: Yeah —

Tim: Here’s where this comes from.

Erica: Yeah. Um, we are coming to the end of our time for today. But my last question that I have been loving recently is: is there anything you’ve learned in your process that you would like to share with others - that we haven’t already talked about?

Tim: Hmm. I think the thing I want to share with everybody is the word grace.

Erica: Mmm.

Tim: The reason I wanna share that word is I find that people in helping professions sometimes don’t offer themselves, or each other, the grace they offer the people they serve. And they’re really hard on themselves and they’re really hard on each other, and then they’re great with their clients. And that is incongruent - it’s inauthentic. What  I mean by grace is: a sense of gentleness - a gentle hand with your own humanity, and the humanity of everybody else who is trying to figure it out. Because we’re all just trying to figure it out.

Erica: Totally. Thank you for sharing. Um, where can people find you - if they wanna connect with you in other spaces?

Tim: Yeah. Online, TimRinggold.com is the place to be. If you’re on social - uh, Instragram, Clubhouse, Facebook is Tim Ringgold.

Erica: Okay.

Tim: And um, my podcast is called Reduce Your Stress with Tim Ringgold. I release, uh, an instrumental track of acoustic guitar - using a loop pedal - every other week, and then I interview other artists who write relaxation music to help outside of entertainment or education, and then I also interview experts on stress. And so there’s tons of content every month to help you - specifically written for health care workers. The podcast’s existence came out of COVID and out of lock down. I made the podcast for healthcare workers for their commute —

Erica: Mmm —

Tim: So, while they’re going in, they can listen to the podcast, and it can help calm their stress down so they can show up powerfully for those they serve. And then they can listen to it on the way home, and then they can be present and show up peacefully for those they love.

Erica: Mmm. I love that - that’s awesome. We’ll put links to everything in the episode notes and on our website. And just, thank you for showing up and being here. I appreciate all that you have been sharing with us.

Tim: Thank you. Thanks for having me - it’s been great to be here, Erica.

Erica: If you’d like to know more about the Music Project, please visit our website at S as in Sam C as in Cat Music Project dot org (SCMusicProject.org). On our website, you can also find transcripts for every podcast episode. Also, as a reminder, today is our last episode before we take a short break. You can connect with us on social media @SCMusicProject so you don’t miss any new episodes when they come out. Thanks again to Tim for being here today. Thank you, listeners, for listening. And we will talk to you next time.

[Podcast outro music plays]