Ep. 036 | Being an Indigenous Music Therapist
Today, we chat with guest, Sarah Bell, a certified music therapist from the Métis people of Canada. Sarah shares about how she brings Indigenous ways of knowing into her therapeutic practice.
RESOURCES
Bell, S. (2018). A Music Therapist's Self-Reflection on Her Indigenous Heritage: A Heuristic Self Inquiry. Canadian Journal of Music Therapy, 24, 58-75.
5 Ways to Observe Indigenous Peoples' Day by Snohomish County Music Project
TRANSCRIPT
Erica: Welcome, friends! You’re listening to The Feeling is Musical — as presented by the Snohomish County Music Project. My name is Erica Lee, and today, we are talking about being an indigenous music therapist, with board-certified music therapist, Sarah Bell.
Sarah is located in southern New Brunswick, Canada. She achieved her masters in the spring of 2016, that explored her indigenous heritage through instrumental improvisation. She is currently working on an equity advisory counsel, and has just finished a 1 year term being an internship supervisor for the first time.
[Podcast intro music plays]
Erica: Welcome to the podcast, Sarah. Thank you so much for being here. I’m really excited about this episode - we’re gonna be talking about indigenous identity and what that means. I had a chance to read through your thesis about your exploration of indigenous identity, and what that means and looks like, and how that impacts your practice. For listeners that may not know you, can we get started with, how did you originally become interested in becoming a music therapist?
Sarah: Great question. I think it sort of found me —
Erica: Mmm —
Sarah: There’s a song I really like by Sampha, who’s this Black, UK artist, and he has this song called No One Knows Me Like the Piano in my Mother’s Home. Being a musician from a young age had like a - a huge impact on me. And using music, without me even knowing it, for like emotional exploration. And, I guess, other reasons are I’m really interested in like healing work and music, and seeing how music uh can be used as a medium to explore different things - and it’s such a non-threatening medium.
Erica: Um, okay - jumping right in, how have your reflections on indigenous healing practices impacted your therapeutic philosophy?
Sarah: Yeah. So, the thing I have learned looking at indigenous healing practices is like, it - it can be different for different nations and how they use it. So, what I look at is sort of like a general view and sort of what I resonate with. I really like the indigenous concept of balance and viewing someone holistically, and looking at like what needs to be in balance for someone to be let’s say well. So like, the emotional part, the spiritual part, the physical part - and then also the communal aspect. In the west, it’s very like individual-focused in terms of like therapy, and just looking at like your individual context, whereas with like more communal cultures, like indigenous cultures, um - I like the uh idea of taking into account someone’s broader uh cultural landscape. And how - how well people are doing in the culture also effects like how you are personally. And I - I just really resonate with that, yeah. I like the aspect of uh grounding - and so, like being in - being in nature to like heal or to like glean um aspects of wellness from. I find like beauty is very healing in my own work. Or just like, as I go out for - like say for like a nature walk, that’s very healing, and I feel that that’s very indigenous to be like one with the earth.
And how it impacted my therapeutic philosophy… So, I think every music therapist is eclectic, but I like the idea of drawing from multiple approaches. Community music therapy, anti-oppressive music therapy, uh Nordoff and Robbins, and how those all sort of go together. So, I think indigenous healing practices like fit really well into the world of music therapy, yeah.
Erica: Yeah. How do you bring indigenous ways of knowing - there’s a lot of different ways that you can be, there’s a lot of different ways to know something - into your therapeutic practice?
Sarah: I haven’t worked with indigenous clients for a while - not saying that you can’t bring those like ways of knowing into like non-indigenous contexts - but that’s definitely like a factor. Like what I was talking about earlier, like looking at someone in their whole like cultural context - I think that’s something that I bring into practice. And the idea that sessions impact the person like individually, but like, when they leave there, do they have the tools to be able to like work on wellness or like things like that in their community context? So I like the idea of equipping people with - with sort of those um practices.
Erica: Mmhmm.
Sarah: Um, for some sessions, I had them outside —
Erica: Oh —!
Sarah: Which was really nice. So, having sessions outside to help people sort of be aware of their surroundings, and - and realize um maybe that like looking on a screen is not always the best. And, there’s something - I’ve said this word a lot - but grounding or peaceful about being in nature - like hearing bird sounds, and using that to - you know, sort of self - self-soothe.
Erica: Mmm. When you’re thinking holistically about a client or the environment, are you using a systems-based approach to think about like, there’s this person, and there’s this system impacting this…?
Sarah: Something I’m really interested in in the future - I think as like climate change begins to be more and more pronounced, like I wanna bring that into the therapeutic context. For example, like someone who’s 17 and talking about eco anxiety - and like, how does that feel uh for you to be, you know, having your education, but also like fighting for the earth?
Erica: Mmm.
Sarah: I think these are really important issues that we need to discuss - like not just outside of the therapeutic context, but also in the therapeutic context. And also, right now, there’s a huge um push like Black lives matter, indigenous lives matter, defund the police - and like, how can we bring those into the therapeutic context in a safe way. Because these issues are difficult to talk about with your friends, like let a lone with people who you don’t know what their leanings are. SO that’s something I’m interested in.
And also, there’s a huge spiritual aspect to indigenous like healing practices, and the idea that like the drum has like a spirit, uh it’s not just like this inanimate object, and… I like the idea of treating the instruments like with respect - and the music we have with respect. So I think that’s another like gleaning that —
Erica: Mmm —
Sarah: I’ve learned from indigenous ways of knowing, yeah. In some sessions that I’ve had before with indigenous clients, like I get them to lead. And so, if they wanna play the drum, then I just have them like share - and maybe there’s like a story around it, so really —
Erica: Mmhmm —
Sarah: Just being in - as a music therapist, like always being in the posture of learning, and being like, what do you wanna share - uh, if there’s things you don’t wanna share, that’s okay too. I guess, trying to create as like safe - safe space - or like brave space as you can to be able to have that time for people to explore it.
And also, I don’t know like how much music therapists talk about this, but like realizing what instruments are appropriate and what aren’t. And like, are there ways that we’re appropriating? So like, are we giving like due to like wherever the instrument comes from? So, if I had a non-indigenous client, I don’t think that I would use like a buffalo drum. Or if I did, maybe talking to them about like this - this is where this comes from, and trying to like gently educate. I think it’s important to be - like it’s important for me to be like critical about the music that I’m using, and like, what songs do I share. Yeah, just trying to be like mindful and critical.
Erica: In your thesis, you consider the relationship between self-awareness and increased authenticity as a therapist. Do you think this would have an impact on compassion satisfaction and/or fatigue? Where you start just becoming dissatisfied - um, you feel like you’re giving giving giving and you’re not being refilled. Compassion satisfaction is kind of the opposite end of the spectrum, of you are finding fulfilment in the work that youre doing - um, you’re connected to the work that you’re doing.
Sarah: I - I can’t really get enough of self-awareness and like boundaries.
Erica: [Chuckles] Yes! Yes.
Sarah: So, I guess, as music therapists, being able to navigate like what is a healthy work load for me? Um even if money - I mean, it’s a real factor, for people, but just being able to be like, well, I can take this on/I - I don’t feel like I can take this on. There’s also - sometimes we think, oh, because I’ve experienced this like, I really wanna work with this.
Erica: Mmm.
Sarah: Let’s say like, for example, you had a mother who had cancer, so you’re really drawn to that work, or thinking you - you should do that. But then, like maybe it brings up your own unexplored processes around that. Just being - just trying to be self-aware, and like check in - like, is this really like helpful for me.
Erica: How has that developed for you - your sense of self-awareness and boundary development?
Sarah: Yeah, that’s such - is such a good question. Boundaries are difficult. Especially when you work sometimes with people who have a lack of boundaries.
Erica: Mmm.
Sarah: Um, yeah. So, I feel like I’ve learned to get better at it - in terms of like saying no. Or, even if you find - like when I first started I worked with people who were similar in age to me - having clients who were a similar age to me. You know how there’s that sort of natural therapeutic rapport, or like, oh, we’re just talking about like music that we like. But being able to be like, are they pushing my boundaries right now? And like, what am I comfortable with? I think I’ve learned more about like boundaries are really important because they help us to figure out like where we begin and where we end. And realizing no one can give us those boundaries. Like we actually have to figure them out for ourselves. So, I think I’ve learned um what is healthy or what is helpful for me to explore with the client - and also like what is not.
Something else that I’ve learned in terms of um boundaries, is realizing like I need to take care of myself. Um, and I think that’s something you can sorta pull off, like right in the beginning of your practice - ‘cause you’re like, it’s all about - it’s all about my client, it’s all about the work that I’m doing. But yeah, realizing like you can’t give on an empty tank, so yeah, what are the daily practices of self-care that I can incorporate to be able to do this work. Maybe I have like - say like 5 minutes between sessions - just doing some deep breath work. Breathing in self compassion and - and maybe exhaling like, let’s say anxiety. So like, just doing that like really practical stuff. That’s an ongoing question I think [Chuckles]
Erica: Absolutely, yeah. I - yeah - I so resonate with the boundaries are hard. And I think one of the hard things about boundaries is that they change. Nothing is the same. Even like sometimes on a day today basis
Sarah: Mmm.
Erica: So what I could do yesterday, or last week, or last month - I just can’t today - and realizing that that’s okay. Giving myself permission to say that that’s okay - everybody’s allowed to have boundaries, and to set their own boundaries, and… Highly recommend.
Sarah: Yes [chuckles]
Erica: [Laughs]
Erica: Um, what does it mean for you to trust the process - as a therapist?
Sarah: You know when you have sessions with people, and you’re like, oh, I’m not like sure about how it’s going. Or like, how are we working on our goals - like are we achieving our goals? So, trusting in the process is like maybe taking a step back, and allowing the session to happen, instead of always like having that critical lens on. Trusting the process also means like trusting in myself and like the abilities I’ve worked on. And also, like the power of music. I think sometimes, as music therapists, like we always talk about - like music is a medium or it’s a tool to explore these different things. But like, music is really powerful and amazing and beautiful, and has like all the abilities to be able to help someone explore like what’s going on internally. So, giving like respect to - to music I think is also in that..
Um, there’s also a piece about - sometimes, as music therapists, like we’re always maybe uh on the defense. So we’ll have people be like, oh you’re just singing with people/you’re just - whatever with people —
Erica: Mmm —
Sarah: So, I think not - allowing myself to not like get swayed by like what other people think music therapy is. But, for myself, to know what it is, and to - like, I’ve seen the power of music therapy - in my own life, in my client’s lives, and in like, I have friends who are music therapist - like in their clients’ lives. So, finding value in that, instead of value in like what other people think it is. And I find when I - like that self-awareness piece, when I’m allowing myself to get caught up in like, oh, is music therapy valid - or like, what they’re saying is true - it’s actually speaking to a place of insecurity in me. So like, how can I be with that place that’s feeling insecure right now, you know. So I think those all are aspects of the trust the process as a music therapist.
Erica: You mentioned like being defensive, or coming from a place of defense. [Sighs] Whoa… I could like do a whole episode about how like defensive I can feel sometimes, particularly because my main role is to do marketing and outreach about what we do —
Sarah: Mmm —
Erica: And I just now feel like a wave of like, oh, how much of my time am I coming from a place of defensiveness - in trying to protect and guard and like give —
Sarah: Mmm —
Erica: People the best impression in what - how would it change the work that I do - or how I even view my role - to come from a place of more trust.
Sarah: That’s - that - that could - seem like a heavy sort of role, to always be like advocating. And also, like it’s okay to be on the defensive I think - because the defense is like a - such like an instinct - and it’s like, we’re trying to like protect ourself. So —
Erica: Mmhmm —
Sarah: I think that’s like a beautiful concept.
Erica: Wow. That’s so - I’ll have to journal about that later —
[Sarah laughs]
Erica: [Chuckling] ‘Cause that’s like a whole thing in my head now. Um, how are you finding beauty in your work recently?
Sarah: So, I finished uh music therapy work up after like 5 years at the end of June. So I’m not currently working as a music therapist - um, I’m working with L'Arche, which is an organization for people with intellectual disabilities - and it’s like all over the world. SO I think that there’s a lot of like connections between that and like music therapy, or like how I am as a therapist. But how am I finding beauty in my work? I think, like the idea of bringing nature into my workspace: I’m always like getting flowers at the farmers’ market and like bringing it onto the kitchen table. And those like daily reminders of beauty are so important, I think for everyone, and also for me. That’s finding beauty in my work. And also like, realizing that the - the healing benefits of beauty - so like, immersing myself in like listening to like beautiful classical music to start my day. There’s like an openness in it, that it’s like, okay, I can start this day slow - I can start this day like with grace and beauty.
Erica: Mmm.
Sarah: Um, I think being a music therapist is such - such a beautiful profession, and it’s a huge honor to have people invite you into their inner world and into what’s going on. So there’s incredible beauty in that for me. And I’m like really humbled by it. Yeah.
I’m also working on an equity advisory counsel - um, we’re called the EAC - so we’re working with our national association. And I’m finding beauty in that. It’s like beauty in the struggle.
Erica: Mmm.
Sarah: Because like, you know the whole world - and not to say that people haven’t ben doing this work - but the world is waking up to all of this racial inequality - and also all this inequality. SO, I find there’s beauty in being able to like fight for - fight for justice within an association - not to say that it’s not a struggle, but also, it’s meaningful work. So I find that beautiful.
Erica: Awesome. What have you learned in your process that you want to offer to others?
Sarah: So many things?
[Erica chuckles]
Sarah: I’m still learning. Um, but I think, particularly people being open. Like, I would encourage people to be open to looking at their cultural background, and how that influences how you see the world, how you interact with the world, and how you like interact with yourself.
Erica: Mmm.
Sarah: And, realizing that - yeah, like you have a really unique experience, and like, you bring all of who you are to the music therapy space. So, being open to like explore that. Um, we’ve already said it, but like boundaries are really important, so… I’ve also done like a lot of personal therapy work. I think I’ve ben in therapy now for 7 years, and I don’t think I would be in the profession I’m in without it. So I think encouraging folx to do that work of like self-exploration. I think we’re only able to take our clients as far as we are able to take ourselves. So, yeah, I wanna encourage people to do therapy, and that will give you a really good idea for how it feels to your clients - and have compassion for them.
I think education is really important. So like, if you don’t know much about Black Lives Matter, then maybe doing that work of like, where is this coming from? Whose music am I perpetuating? Or, whose music am I singing? Is it all white men? Um, for me, when I was practicing, it was. So I wanted to like diversify that. Like, whose stories am I listening to? Am I like actively engaging - or listening to people who have different experiences than me - are people who look differently than me? So, am I - am I being open to that? Yeah, I - I think being open —
Erica: That’s great —!
Sarah: - Just trying to be as open as possible, yeah.
Erica: Yeah.
Sarah: Yeah.
Erica: Do you have any closing thoughts?? We’re coming to the end of our time for today.
Sarah: I wanted to do a land acknowledgement at the beginning —
Erica: Go for it —
Sarah: So I’ll do that now. I’m staying at my sisters, so I’m an hour and a half away from where I live. But um, I’m currently on the east coast of Canada, so just above Maine. I’m currently living in St. John, New Brunswick, which is the traditional, unseated territory of the Wolastoqey, Maliseet, and Mik’Maq Peoples.
And, for closing thoughts, I would say, find out whose - whose land you’re originally on. And how can you honor and respect the indigenous peoples who have been there before you and who are in your like area. I think, all around the world, reconciliation is a huge topic —
Erica: Mmhmm —
Sarah: Um, so, are there every day ways you can engage with to actively reconcile um yourself and Indigenous peoples?
Erica: Mmm.
Sarah: Maybe - maybe think about that. And that’s maybe a really hard question, but I think, a small act of reconciliation is even just being like, whose land am I walking on right now?
Erica: Mmhmm. Absolutely. And I’ll add to that that where the podcast is being recorded is on the land of the Snohomish people and other Coast Salish tribes. I do know that if you don’t know what land you are living on or working on, you can go to native dash land dot C A (Native-Land.ca), and that’s a great website that’s easy to figure out that information. I can include that in the episode notes as well, so it’s easy to access.
Sarah: Mmm. Can I also just end with like, be kind to yourselves. That’s what my therapist always says to me.
Erica: Yes.
Sarah: Be kind to yourself. Be kind to others. These are difficult, strange times, so —
Erica: Mmhmm —
Sarah: Yeah. Try and be kind and gentle with yourself - and generous with yourself - and with others.
Erica: Absolutely. Well, thank you, Sarah, so much for chatting with us today. I really appreciate your time and effort, and all your contributions to the whole of the music therapy community. You are much appreciated.
Sarah: Thanks very much, Erica. So are you.
Erica: If you would like to know more about the Snohomish County Music Project, you can find us at our website at S as in Sam - C as in cat - Music Project dot org (SCMusicProject.org). There are resources available there - there are transcripts of the podcast available on our website. We encourage you to connect with us on all social media @SCMusicProject - Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. If you want to follow along and receive notifications when new episode are released, we encourage you to subscribe or follow, depending on the app you’re using. Also, if you would like to support the growth of the podcast, we’d very much appreciate leaving a review, sharing episodes with people in your life. If you share it on social media, tag us so that we can say thank you.
Thanks again to Sarah for her time - for joining us today. Thank you, listeners, for listening. And we’ll talk to you next time.
[Podcast outro music plays]