Ep. 041 | What Support Does Your Friend Need?

Today, we chat with guest, Katy Webber, a music therapist, about how we can support and care for others in meaningful ways.

TRANSCRIPT

Erica: Welcome, friends! You’re listening to The Feeling is Musical — as presented by the Snohomish County Music Project. My name is Erica Lee, and today, we are talking about what support does your friend need, with music therapist, Katy Webber. Katy is a music therapist who engages with veterans and children in community programs. She practices with a humanistic philosophy; Katy believes that everyone is unique and that it is important to discover how to approach music therapy process in a way that best fits the individual.

[Podcast intro music plays]

Erica: Okay, well, welcome back to the podcast, Katy.

Katy: Thank you.

Erica: I think this is gonna be a really good episode. Today we are gonna talk about Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and other kinds of traumas - kind of as a content warning also: if this is something that could bring up some thoughts and issues for you, you are welcome to take care of yourself and to skip parts, or just to not listen to this episode. We will specifically today be talking about what does it mean to take care of our friends and family that have trauma or PTSD, because not all trauma is PTSD. We’re gonna specifically be talking about that particular thing within trauma. Yeah, so can we just start with what is PTSD? I feel like it’s pretty well known, but I don’t think everybody’s on the same page in terms of like what it actually is.

Katy: Yeah. I feel like people have been using it a lot more lately, and have been more curious about it because we’re discovering that it’s something that not just can be found within, you know, one culture of our life, but throughout human culture. So, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - that’s something that can happen through an event that is considered traumatic for the individual. And so, this event - even perhaps if it happens once - can follow the individual through their life.

Erica: Mmhmm.

Katy: Can be reoccurring as well, of course. And I think um initially people thought that this was just something that happened within military culture - and that’s why I brought up culture earlier. Um, we’ve also like - I’ve heard mention of it um happening within police culture as well, where individuals are really just holding on to some really um challenging thoughts that they um don’t really know how to process. Like they don’t know how to talk about it - it’s not something that they perhaps grew up knowing about or have been around anybody before who has talked to them about it. So, it can be really difficult to understand why in the world you’re feeling certain feelings. And then the amount of people in the society that don’t understand how important it is to really talk about it, you know, if you can. And it’s a really fragile - like [chuckles] it gets really fragile at that point. Because, again, it’s not  like a common topic —

Erica: Mmm —

Katy: So —

Erica: Yeah —

Katy: How would we know how to deal with it?

Erica: Yeah. So it’s something that comes as a result of a traumatic event - what are some of the quote unquote symptoms or signs, or like, how would somebody know - if they had a traumatic event, how could they figure out maybe I have PTSD?

Katy Yeah. Well, one of - a really big symptom can be anxiety. And anxiety can take many different forms. Maybe you feel yourself - you know, if you feel yourself shaking while you’re maybe delivering a speech, that’s a different kind of anxiety, but you can kind of like get an idea of what it feels like from something like that. Because you feel really uncomfortable - it’s not something that is normal. And clearly your body is in distress, you know, your heartbeat is elevated, and you can feel your blood pumping through your veins a - a bit faster. And um, so that can be a sign. And that can be something where it’s reoccurring, like - and it’s - and it can be um where it’s - perhaps you’re thinking of the event just in your head randomly, it just pops in - there it is - and you’re triggered. Perhaps it’s an environmental thing, where a car backfires and it reminds someone of a event where, you know, a gun was involved. Um, people can have dreams - and perhaps even the dreams wouldn’t necessarily be about the event, but it could be nightmares, you know. And, you know, it - it can also come in the form of something you can see within your friends and in your family. Perhaps they’re doing well in school and then, all of a sudden, they’re doing poorly. And that can be within their personal life - you don’t have to be in school, you know - just, [chuckles] life can be doing great, and all of a sudden [makes a descending sound effect]. Maybe you’re having a hard time maintaining your close relationships too, because you’re so agitated and you don’t know how to express it, and - and it’s coming out in these ways that is just - can become challenging.

Erica: There’s so many different things. And of course, because everybody’s responses to trauma are different - so, just because you had —

Katy: Yes —

Erica: A traumatic event, or have a traumatic event happening to you, does not mean - there’s not a direct correlation between that and then you have to have PTSD.

Katy: Oh, absolutely.

Erica: Um, you touched on that there’s kinda this misconception that PTSD only happens —

Katy: Mmhmm —

Erica: Within the military - either personnel specifically, or their families, or just in that culture generally.

Katy: Mmhmm.

Erica: Um, are there any other misconceptions that you can think of that come up?

Katy: You know, yeah. Such as: it’s something that perhaps means that you’re weak.

Erica: Mmm.

Katy: Because, you know, what - what is wrong with you that you would allow your brain to take over your life? But it’s not that simple. Our environment has a lot to do with how we process, and all of our brains are different, due to biology and environmental issues. So we really have to remember to take that into consideration, yeah.

Erica: Yeah. I think we talk about mental health stigma in general —

Katy: Mmhmm —

Erica: The perception that if you are having mental health challenges, or have a mental illness, that equates to some sort of weakness.

Katy: Yeah.

Erica: And that’s just not true.

Katy: Right, exactly. And um, I found an article actually where, within the military they’re - it looks like there’s a debate over changing the name of PTSD, you know, from saying that it’s a disorder to an injury —

Erica: Mmm —

Katy: In the hopes that it will reduce the stigma —

Erica: Mmm —

Katy: Within the military culture. And it’s - it’s interesting to me how like - so much that has carried into mainstream culture. You know, how can we do that as a culture to help us understand like it’s okay to have a disorder. It doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. Maybe I just need to say that.  [Laughing] It’s okay to have a disorder. It doesn’t mean that there’s necessarily anything wrong with you. Everybody’s different - everybody experiences life differently. And you don’t have to suffer either. If you find somebody who’s just willing to listen, um that can help dramatically. And there are ways that you can seek out help - there are people that want to help, too.

Erica: Yeah.

Katy: And anybody who’s like not sure if they should help - maybe they don’t think its their business - you know, I understand that, because it’s challenging - because what do you say? You know, I overheard - somebody was talking to a co-worker about his friend had - had made statements regarding what he had experienced in Afghanistan, and that he just didn’t know what to say.

And so, you know, I said, well, you know, if you’re able to - if you’re up for it - because we’re not all able to give that support, because we have a lot going on ourselves and we just aren’t able to um quite give ourselves, you know, to another person that much. But if you feel like you can, like you’re able to help, um listening is great. Just sit back and going - you know, and just seeing if you’re friend says anything else can be a really good tool. You can ask open-ended questions… Let’s see, what would be some good examples of that, because I wanna be careful. Because we don’t wanna like tell our friends how to like be therapists either, you know. So um, perhaps it could be as simple as, this seems like it could be really challenging for you, and I want to hear about this. You know, I’m here, I’m ready to listen. Let’s sit - I’m here and ready for you.

Erica: Yeah.

Katy: Um, just if you can try not to dismiss it also - and I mean by that, like um, you know, some people have said: well, it sounds like you really need to talk to a therapist about this. Or: why haven’t you gotten over this yet? Something that seems as maybe little to somebody - like that happened one time - you know, to something that’s reoccurring and huge, you know —

Erica: Yeah —

Katy: And so I just hear a lot of people, you know, just kinda dismissing it. Saying, well, why don’t you just get over that, you know, and move on. And it’s not always that easy. And if you say things like that, it actually can cause the person to retreat even further inward.

Erica: Mmm.

Katy: And they won’t wanna seek help.

Erica: Yeah. Other dismissive things I’ve hard are statements like it’s not that bad. Or any like —

Katy: Yeah, uh huh —

Erica: Minimizing the problem. Uh doing like - uh somebody tells you a story and you try and like top it - like you have a worse story, or you have a bigger story. That is - that feels dismissive and minimizes what the other person just told you.

Um, there was one more that I’ve heard quite a bit that I was gonna talk about… Maybe it’ll come back to me.

Katy: Yeah! Absolutely. You wanna be a friend and open your heart and see what you can do to help them. And there are a lot of different ways that you can make connections with your friends too, that help relieve stress, such as getting out together for walks. And perhaps even playing music together if you’re into that kind of thing.

Erica: Mmhmm.

Katy: Or painting together. I, of course, I, of course, think singing along with songs, or karaoke YouTube. You know, YouTube is an amazing tool - you can put in any song you want - get that oxygen flowing into the brain, and release those [sighs deeply] ahh, the dopamine and all that good stuff —

Erica: Yeah —

Katy: To help you relax in these - you know, in times perhaps when you’re feeling triggered.

Erica: I remember the thing that I forgot.

Katy: Mmhmm?

Erica: Is just be happy. Just —

Katy: Ohhh yes!

Erica: Just change your emotion, like, just be positive. Have a positive mindset - a positive outlook. That is very invalidating.

Katy: Yeah. It really is - it is. And it’s interesting, because like, it just - I - I reflect back on growing up, and that’s very much - I feel like it’s part of the culture. My parents would say that to me, and their parents would say that to them, you know, and that’s just how you did. You just went off and figured it out on your own. And it’s interesting, because I’ve been talking to a lot of people within like kind of my generation, but definitely younger generations, and they seem to notice that a lot. Like wow, I - I - I didn’t know how to express myself! And now that I’m getting older, and it’s becoming like a little more accepted - because we’re talking about it more - you know, like we said earlier, PTSD, I mean, everybody’s heard of it. Perhaps they don’t exactly know what it is, but it’s not just shellshock or, you know, something within the military. It’s something that can be within uh society - typical society.

Erica: Sure.

Katy: So, I’m really grateful. I’m so glad that we’re talking about it more, and that people can see that it is important. Like, what they experienced is real. It’s not, oh poor you - move on. It’s a real thing. If your body responds to a smell, or a sound, or perhaps - like you can even respond to the way somebody behaves towards you and need to go into protection mode - um, protect yourself from the trauma.

Erica: Yeah. Because trauma is a visceral experience.

Katy: Right, exactly.

Erica: It is a felt, bodily experience.

Katy: Yeah.

Erica: Trauma exists in your nervous system, and you have to do something to release that —

Katy: Yes —

Erica: And you had like mentioned going on a walk —

Katy: Yes —!

Erica: Like physical activity is so helpful for that.

Katy: Mmhmm —

Erica: I find yoga to be super grounding and super helpful. Gentle movement. Just because you’re moving, doesn’t mean you have to be in pain. No pain no gain is - I don’t - to put it mildly, that’s an utter lie.

[Katy laughs.]

Erica: Um, you are allowed to do movement that is joyful and kind to your body as a part of processing trauma.

Katy: Yeah. I like that. And that reminds me of something I heard earlier this week about mindful meditation. Because, often, people have a difficult time even finding the time to just do what they consider would be meditation - sit in a - you know, in a space where they can quiet their mind perhaps, you know, for a number of minutes. But that’s not possible for everybody to do, or perhaps not even helpful [laughs] you know - um or enjoyable in any way. And it was just the simple act of making um a pot of tea. And focusing - now I’m boiling the water, to now I’m taking the teabag and putting it into the pot, and, you know, filling the pot, you know, smelling the tea. You know, just like spending that - what is that - 10/15 minutes just doing that task.

Erica: That’s really - that’s a really good example. When we’re talking about open-ended questions that people could ask their friends or family members, something that came to mind is - I think I said um like how could I support you? Like what would you find helpful. Sometimes that can be a really overwhelming question if the person doesn’t really know what they need or what they want. So asking more specific questions could be helpful. Sometimes I’ll ask a friend like, would you like to go on a walk? Do you want to do a puzzle? Like try and create smaller opportunities of like specific things that - you know your friend, you know your family member - you can ask them things that would be appropriate for them. Giving those small opportunities to say yes or no would be less overwhelming and more manageable, rather than just giving open-ended support.

Katy: Yes. I agree with that. And also, it’s really - and I’m glad you brought that up - thank you, thank you, thank you. Because it’s really difficult for people to say, hey, just let me know how I can help! You know, in the first place. And then the person whom they’re saying that to, is kinda like, okay - will do. But it’s not always followed through with.

Erica: Mmhmm.

Katy: You know, if you’re suffering from PTSD, um, and you’re experiencing anxiety or depression, or you’re just not feeling comfortable around maybe other people, because they don’t understand, or, you know, there can be so many reasons. And so I really love that idea. That community - and especially during this time - can be so important. And the most challenging.

But I think that there are ways that we can possibly consider coming together and helping our friends. Over the summer I had my friend over, and we talked in the backyard, you know, 6 feet away. And I kinda dressed up the backyard a bit with pillows —

Erica: Mmm —

Katy: And it was just cozy —

Erica: That’s fun —

Katy: And, you know, making sure we were safe, and there was just the 2 of us. And we were just able to chat. Just being there is wonderful —

Erica: Yeah —

Katy: And so supportive —

Erica: Yeah —

Katy: Especially during this time.

Erica: As we come into the holiday season at the end of 2020, with COVID still very much happening - before the pandemic - without a pandemic happening, the holiday season is well known to be a high point of mental health issues. There’s just more crisis - there’s just more need. And so, being really mindful - and you are not, listener, responsible for your whole community - you are not responsible for saving the world. Maybe you know somebody that you know struggles with their mental health - just keep them in mind: send them a text, send them funny Instagram videos.

Katy: Yeah! I get together with my good friend on Zoom, and we watch movies together, you know, in that way —

Erica: Awesome —

Katy: Yeah, which has been very nice. So —

Erica: Yeah. Just be creative. So we are coming to the end of our time for today. Do you have any closing thoughts, Katy?

Katy: Take of yourself, everybody. Please. I’ve been thinking about the world a lot, and, you know, in one way or another, we will get through this, won’t we —?

Erica: Yes —

Katy: And just, as we go, um, do whatever you can to take care of yourself - be creative - reach out to people. Just do your best, okay?

Erica: Yeah. So, I will include, in the episode notes and on our website, some further resources. Um, if you are having a mental health crisis and need somebody to talk to, I will put some phone numbers you can call/places that you can reach out to for help. If you would like to explore the possibility of music therapy, I will get you the information you need, and we can see how we can make that possible for you.

So, thank you, Katy, so much for chatting, and having this conversation today. I think it’s so important, and it’s good to keep talking about these types of things.

Katy: Thank you.

Erica: Absolutely.

In wrapping up, if you’d like to learn more about the Music Project, you’re welcome to find us online at S as in Sam C as in Cat Music Project dot org (scmusicproject.org). On our website, we have transcripts of all of the podcast episodes if you prefer to read or just refer back to it at a later date. You’re also welcome to connect with us on social media - all platforms - @SCMusicProject. If you want to follow along and receive notifications when new episodes are released, we encourage you to subscribe or follow - depending on which app you’re using to listen.

Thank you, Katy, so much for your time in joining us today. Thank you, listeners, for listening. And we’ll talk to you next time.

[Podcast outro music plays.]